.223 and 5.56 Nato.. Difference..

4thIDvet · 01-11-2013, 04:37 AM

".223 Remington vs. 5.56 NATO: What You Don’t Know Could Hurt You"

Is firing a 5.56 NATO cartridge in your .223 Remington chambered AR15 dangerous? Or do Internet forum-ninjas and ammunition companies selling you commercial ammo instead of surplus overstate the dangers? Believe it or not, a real danger exists, and some gun owners who think they are doing the right thing may not be safe.
http://www.humanevents.com/2011/02/1...ould-hurt-you/

Yes yes you guys who have been re-loading for a long time know this..
But for us new guys getting into serious re-loading, kind of an interesting read.
People are fighting over brass at the ranges..
5.56 brass does not even hit the ground and guys are catching it in mid air.
New guys read this, before yah re-load em..
My Bro is loading them and I keep telling him his primers are not set deep enough, their raised above the casing.
He will not listen, so I stay some distance from him when were at the range.

Icarus · 01-11-2013, 08:55 AM

223 down a 556 cool
556 down a 223 NOT COOL

10 Bears · 01-11-2013, 11:10 AM

Editor’s Note: This article on .223 vs 5.56 comparisons is an excerpt from Gun Digest 2013, the world’s greatest gun book.
.223 vs 5.56: A History

by Patrick Sweeney

To a whole lot of shooters, ammo is ammo—if it fits, it shoots. These shooters tend to be the guys with seriously tired, worn, or even busted firearms. They also tend to focus on the wrong thing; you know, the guy who scrubs the brass marks off his ejector lump, at least until one day his rifle stops working or breaks into many pieces.

Ammo is not ammo. And when doing a .223 vs 5.56 comparison, while the loads are almost identical, they are not the same. To know why, we have to go back to the beginning.

Long, interesting article here: http://www.gundigest.com/223-vs-5-56

55chevy · 01-11-2013, 11:59 AM

Nice long article that probably could have been much shorter. Couple of issues that were not mentioned and should have been IMO. Primer pockets on military have the primer crimped in place and if reloaded need the pockets to be reamed or swedged to get rid of the crimped portion. Military brass is a thicker wall construction in the cartridge case than commercial brass. This causes a pressure increase if loaded to commercial specs. This also holds true for other military ammo versus commercial, IE, .308 and 7.62 x 51 and others.

JD Miller · 01-11-2013, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 55chevy

Nice long article that probably could have been much shorter. Couple of issues that were not mentioned and should have been IMO. Primer pockets on military have the primer crimped in place and if reloaded need the pockets to be reamed or swedged to get rid of the crimped portion. Military brass is a thicker wall construction in the cartridge case than commercial brass. This causes a pressure increase if loaded to commercial specs. This also holds true for other military ammo versus commercial, IE, .308 and 7.62 x 51 and others.

Yep, Even some commercial brass is thicker than others. Same powder load in Remington brass may create higher preasure than that same powder load in WW brass

10 Bears · 01-11-2013, 02:23 PM

I've trimmed many a milspec primer pocket to accept primers.
Absolute necessity if you don't want to RUIN that primer.

flopshot · 01-11-2013, 04:01 PM

so given a decent supply of 5.56, two other AR's in 5.56, should i have the Colt Sporter chambered for 5.56 ?

4thIDvet · 01-14-2013, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flopshot

so given a decent supply of 5.56, two other AR's in 5.56, should i have the Colt Sporter chambered for 5.56 ?

Good question flopshot, I do not know? Guess? the dimensions are the same, cept for being thicker on the inside?
If loaded for .223 with the proper charge, would imagine it would work?
Accuracy I do not know?

Rew · 01-16-2013, 01:43 PM

Yes, have it chambered in 5.56. .223 loads are fine heck .223 dies are fine. In a 5.56 chamber you can safely use either round. Not so in a .223 chamber.

hangfire · 01-16-2013, 03:56 PM

I never understood why anyone would even want a .223 chambered AR-15.

baboon · 01-16-2013, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hangfire

I never understood why anyone would even want a .223 chambered AR-15.

wasn't all the early ones .223?

4thIDvet · 01-17-2013, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baboon

wasn't all the early ones .223?

Not sure boon? Military gave us big boxes of ammo. Never really looked..
If they fit in the mags we put them in.. Hell if the gun blew up, we just grabbed another one.
We had more guns than guys to use them. Wish the hell I mailed some home, nobody knew what the hell was going on.

10 Bears · 01-17-2013, 01:27 PM

I think they were all .223 untill it became a NATO round.
Then it was re-designated and made stronger for other folks chambers.

pfalz2 · 01-18-2013, 03:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4thIDvet

Not sure boon? Military gave us big boxes of ammo. Never really looked..
If they fit in the mags we put them in.. Hell if the gun blew up, we just grabbed another one.
We had more guns than guys to use them. Wish the hell I mailed some home, nobody knew what the hell was going on.

What was given to me was.222, told don't think about just shoot it.

Any way this is how the difference was explained to me

The significant difference between the .223 Rem and 5.56 NATO lies in the rifles, rather than the cartridges themselves. Both the .223 and 5.56 rounds will chamber in rifles designed for either cartridge, but the critical component, leade, will be different in each rifle.

The leade is the area of the barrel in front of the chamber prior to where the rifling begins. This is where the loaded bullet is located when a cartridge is chambered. The leade is frequently called the “throat.”

On a .223 Remington spec rifle, the leade will be 0.085”. This is the standard described by the Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers’ Institute, Inc. (SAAMI). The leade in a 5.56 NATO spec rifle is 0.162”, or almost double the leade of the .223 rifle.

A shorter leade in a SAAMI spec rifle creates a situation where the bullet in a 5.56 NATO round, when chambered, can contact the rifling prior to being fired. By having contact with the rifling prematurely (at the moment of firing), chamber pressure can be dramatically increased, creating the danger of a ruptured case or other cartridge/gun failure.

The reverse situation, a .223 Rem round in a 5.56 NATO gun, isn’t dangerous. The leade is longer, so a slight loss in velocity and accuracy may be experienced, but there is not a danger of increased pressures and subsequent catastrophic failure.

4thIDvet · 01-18-2013, 07:29 AM

Interesting pfalz thank you.. Yeah I really really never touched an M-16 till I got where I was going.
11-H10 trained, recoilless rifle..
Then when I got where I was going, which was out in "Where the Fagowy."
"Just grab something. Their is a pile of crap over there FNG.."
How the hell does this thing work?
"You put the magazine in here, do not put a round in the chamber till we tell yah. Pull this lever back, chamber a round and put it on full auto. Then squeeze the trigger stupid."
O.K. who do I shoot?
"Oh we got us a dumb one here. If they shoot at yah shoot back stupid."
Damn you guys are cool. Can I go home, I think Mom has dinner ready.

01-11-2013, 04:37 AM	#1
4thIDvet slug Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Astor Florida Posts: 48,512	.223 and 5.56 Nato.. Difference.. ".223 Remington vs. 5.56 NATO: What You Don’t Know Could Hurt You" Is firing a 5.56 NATO cartridge in your .223 Remington chambered AR15 dangerous? Or do Internet forum-ninjas and ammunition companies selling you commercial ammo instead of surplus overstate the dangers? Believe it or not, a real danger exists, and some gun owners who think they are doing the right thing may not be safe. http://www.humanevents.com/2011/02/1...ould-hurt-you/ Yes yes you guys who have been re-loading for a long time know this.. But for us new guys getting into serious re-loading, kind of an interesting read. People are fighting over brass at the ranges.. 5.56 brass does not even hit the ground and guys are catching it in mid air. New guys read this, before yah re-load em.. My Bro is loading them and I keep telling him his primers are not set deep enough, their raised above the casing. He will not listen, so I stay some distance from him when were at the range. __________________ God Bless Americas Veterans. All who are serving and have served.

01-11-2013, 08:55 AM	#2
Icarus BUNKER FUNKER Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: UP SHIT CREEK Posts: 3,534	223 down a 556 cool 556 down a 223 NOT COOL __________________ AMERICAN BY BIRTH; SOUTHERN BY THE GRACE OF GOD: SON OF THE SOUTH, MAN OF THE BLUES TITTIES Dont make me have to do it! 3. Never stick it in crazy. I STAND WITH ISRAEL MoLoN LaBe MOTHERFUCKER 3% To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical. Thomas Jefferson

01-16-2013, 03:56 PM	#10
hangfire Home on the range Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: S. Indiana Posts: 17,287	I never understood why anyone would even want a .223 chambered AR-15. __________________ "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure of the universe" -Albert Einstein-

01-11-2013, 11:10 AM	#3
10 Bears Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: E-Da-How Posts: 137,846	Editor’s Note: This article on .223 vs 5.56 comparisons is an excerpt from Gun Digest 2013, the world’s greatest gun book. .223 vs 5.56: A History by Patrick Sweeney To a whole lot of shooters, ammo is ammo—if it fits, it shoots. These shooters tend to be the guys with seriously tired, worn, or even busted firearms. They also tend to focus on the wrong thing; you know, the guy who scrubs the brass marks off his ejector lump, at least until one day his rifle stops working or breaks into many pieces. Ammo is not ammo. And when doing a .223 vs 5.56 comparison, while the loads are almost identical, they are not the same. To know why, we have to go back to the beginning. Long, interesting article here: http://www.gundigest.com/223-vs-5-56

01-11-2013, 11:59 AM	#4
55chevy Senior Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Central Orygun Posts: 4,401	Nice long article that probably could have been much shorter. Couple of issues that were not mentioned and should have been IMO. Primer pockets on military have the primer crimped in place and if reloaded need the pockets to be reamed or swedged to get rid of the crimped portion. Military brass is a thicker wall construction in the cartridge case than commercial brass. This causes a pressure increase if loaded to commercial specs. This also holds true for other military ammo versus commercial, IE, .308 and 7.62 x 51 and others.

01-11-2013, 02:23 PM	#6
10 Bears Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: E-Da-How Posts: 137,846	I've trimmed many a milspec primer pocket to accept primers. Absolute necessity if you don't want to RUIN that primer.

01-11-2013, 04:01 PM	#7
flopshot Constitutional bigot Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: North Carolina Posts: 5,812	so given a decent supply of 5.56, two other AR's in 5.56, should i have the Colt Sporter chambered for 5.56 ?

01-16-2013, 01:43 PM	#9
Rew Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Colorado Posts: 9,710	Yes, have it chambered in 5.56. .223 loads are fine heck .223 dies are fine. In a 5.56 chamber you can safely use either round. Not so in a .223 chamber.

01-17-2013, 01:27 PM	#13
10 Bears Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: E-Da-How Posts: 137,846	I think they were all .223 untill it became a NATO round. Then it was re-designated and made stronger for other folks chambers.

01-18-2013, 07:29 AM	#15
4thIDvet slug Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Astor Florida Posts: 48,512	Interesting pfalz thank you.. Yeah I really really never touched an M-16 till I got where I was going. 11-H10 trained, recoilless rifle.. Then when I got where I was going, which was out in "Where the Fagowy." "Just grab something. Their is a pile of crap over there FNG.." How the hell does this thing work? "You put the magazine in here, do not put a round in the chamber till we tell yah. Pull this lever back, chamber a round and put it on full auto. Then squeeze the trigger stupid." O.K. who do I shoot? "Oh we got us a dumb one here. If they shoot at yah shoot back stupid." Damn you guys are cool. Can I go home, I think Mom has dinner ready.