My 1858 Remington groups real nice.

Exitwound · 08-23-2010, 09:22 AM

Taking careful aim from 20ft away last night was producing groups that would fit well within the space of a silver dollar. I think that's pretty good.

"Rapid" fire, where I took just barely enough time to get the front sight on the target was giving me 5" groups.

My wife was with me and I let her shoot it a few times. She really liked it.

Karl/PA · 08-23-2010, 09:36 AM

They are great revolvers. Just be sure to take it apart and clean it after every outing.

Gus · 08-23-2010, 10:19 AM

1858 Remington IMO is the best of the cap an ball revolvers, very accurate and well built.

10 Bears · 08-23-2010, 12:22 PM

Before I had a new front site put on my Walker, I couldn't hit a 55 gal. barrel at 20 feet.
That little piece of silver dime sure made a difference.
Now I can hit the barrel at 30 feet.

AKWARRIOR · 08-23-2010, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gus

1858 Remington IMO is the best of the cap an ball revolvers, very accurate and well built.

+1,

Much better then the Colts.

Sanders · 08-24-2010, 11:43 AM

Smoke 'em if you got 'em!

5knives · 08-24-2010, 01:39 PM

Hmmm ....

Well ... The BEST Black Powder revolver ever mass produced was/is the Ruger Old Army!
Best combination of strength, accuracy and power!
Never heard anyone seriously question that since the day it was announced. And of course it is an improvement and redesign of the basic Remington concept.

As far as the Remington Colt debate, opinions differ, Remington had some nice features, Colt had some other advantages equally nice.

For one if you had time to use them the Remington had slightly better sights, but the Colt pointed better and faster, and that's what the Cavalryman with a saber in one hand, his revolver in the other and the reins in his teeth tended to prefer.

There was another reason that WAY more Colts were issued than Remingtons!

Anyone except Mr. 10 Bears (cause he probably knows) care to guess what it was?

Regards,

...

10 Bears · 08-24-2010, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5knives

Hmmm ....

Well ... The BEST Black Powder revolver ever mass produced was/is the Ruger Old Army!
Best combination of strength, accuracy and power!
Never heard anyone seriously question that since the day it was announced. And of course it is an improvement and redesign of the basic Remington concept.

As far as the Remington Colt debate, opinions differ, Remington had some nice features, Colt had some other advantages equally nice.

For one if you had time to use them the Remington had slightly better sights, but the Colt pointed better and faster, and that's what the Cavalryman with a saber in one hand, his revolver in the other and the reins in his teeth tended to prefer.

There was another reason that WAY more Colts were issued than Remingtons!

Anyone except Mr. 10 Bears (cause he probably knows) care to guess what it was?

Regards,

...

Nobody???

Exitwound · 08-24-2010, 11:43 PM

No idea. Mr. Bears can you shed some light?

Gus · 08-24-2010, 11:46 PM

A contractual agreement between Colt and Remington.

I own replicas of both, the 1858 Remington hands down is the better firearm.

10 Bears · 08-24-2010, 11:47 PM

The "Walkers" and then the various Dragoons!
Horse Pistols all.
Not carried on the hip but in saddle holsters!

They were not exceeded in power untill 1935, when the .357 was introduced.

Karl/PA · 08-24-2010, 11:56 PM

First couple of years of the Civil War the Rebs would clean up on the Union Calalry, The North was still relying on rifles and sabers where the south relied more on shotguns and pistols. Each of McNeill's Rangers carried a cut off double barrelled shotgun and FOUR pistols. One on each hip and one in each boot. Tremendous close quarter firepower.

Gus · 08-25-2010, 12:02 AM

Colt rear site a "V" in the hammer.

Colt barrel held to the frame with a friction fit wedge that was driven in place.

10 Bears · 08-25-2010, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gus

Colt rear site a "V" in the hammer.

Colt barrel held to the frame with a friction fit wedge that was driven in place.

Yep, not good at all, on both points.
But they had power!

5knives · 08-25-2010, 02:21 AM

Hmmm,

Interesting!

Thought sure someone here would know.

Not meant to be a trap, just a point of interest.

To 10 Bears point though, V notch in hammer, yup, you changed windage and elevation with a file. plus they were factory set more or less for a 75 yard zero, ... intentionally!\\
and so were the Remingtons.

But the Colts were designed to point not to aim, and the 1860's were darn near as natural a pointer as the older .36 Navy (which was and is the best pointing handgun ever made but definitely NOT a good stopper, think .380 power levels) but the .44 anchored targets far better.

The wedge was meant to be useful in an emergency if you for some reason had to dismantle your revolver with only a rock for a tool.

Which was sometimes required because the worst percussion caps you could buy today are more reliable and uniform than anything produced in the CW era.

They frequently shattered on firing, with pieces flying about and dropping into the 'works'.

Anyone doing much BP revolver shooting today has had it happen even with modern caps, piece of cap ends up in the wrong place, locks the cylinder and your done shooting until you clear it.

Note: ( You can do a lot to improve the accuraccy of your Colts by using a feeler gauge to get a uniform barrel/cylinder gap when you press the wedge home on reassembly.)

And you improve the accuracy of both Remingtons, Colts, Stars and all the others by carefully assembling your ball or bullet and powder into paper cartridges which is what the old timers used anyhow. Gummed cigarette papers work just dandy. Making a few dozen or more is a satisfying way of passing a poor TV night.

Because of the common occurrence of exploding, breaking and fracturing caps the Remington closed frame and top strap 'trapped' more fragments and quickly gained a reputation for being less 'reliable' than the open design Colts. I've had it happen with both.

Much less common today but even with modern caps, the Remington design will lock up more frequently than the Colts. The natural walking beam process of fire, recoil, cock and fire action of a single action serves to drop the shards and pieces free with the Colt and tends to dump them into the lockwork of the Remingtons.

The Remington designs for cylinder barrel removal makes the jam easier to clear, but in the day, the feeling was that they jammed 'too often'.

So the Remingtons got a rep for being 'finicky', and were usually issued to Officers who were presumed to be somewhat less likely to have to use them in ernest.

But the culprit was really the poor quality percussion caps of the time in a firearm design that was maybe a tad ahead of its time

In both cases the modern replica's are on average better made, more reliable, and more accurate than anything available during the CW era, But the better older ones had a hell of a nice polish and bluing job!

Oh Yeah ... and Mr Exitwound has got himself a 'Good Un' !

Regards,

...

08-23-2010, 09:22 AM	#1
Exitwound Red Blooded American Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 2,288	My 1858 Remington groups real nice. Taking careful aim from 20ft away last night was producing groups that would fit well within the space of a silver dollar. I think that's pretty good. "Rapid" fire, where I took just barely enough time to get the front sight on the target was giving me 5" groups. My wife was with me and I let her shoot it a few times. She really liked it. __________________ Fear is the mind killer.

08-23-2010, 09:36 AM	#2
Karl/PA Resident Curmudgeon Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: South-Central PA Posts: 11,989	They are great revolvers. Just be sure to take it apart and clean it after every outing. __________________ Karl Alcohol is a perfect solvent: It dissolves marriages, families and careers.

08-24-2010, 11:43 AM	#6
Sanders Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 66,512	Smoke 'em if you got 'em! __________________ "The truly dangerous man dresses inconspicuously and is soft- spoken. He walks away from most confrontations. The only time you learn that the truly dangerous man is mad at you is a split second before you die, for he never fights. He only kills. The truly dangerous man knows that fighting is what children do and killing is what men do." - Charley Reese 1986 3

08-23-2010, 10:19 AM	#3
Gus Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Arizona Posts: 66,849	1858 Remington IMO is the best of the cap an ball revolvers, very accurate and well built.

08-23-2010, 12:22 PM	#4
10 Bears Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: E-Da-How Posts: 137,846	Before I had a new front site put on my Walker, I couldn't hit a 55 gal. barrel at 20 feet. That little piece of silver dime sure made a difference. Now I can hit the barrel at 30 feet.

08-24-2010, 01:39 PM	#7
5knives KaBoom Kontrol Modulator Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Colorado, Western Slope Posts: 16,229	Hmmm .... Well ... The BEST Black Powder revolver ever mass produced was/is the Ruger Old Army! Best combination of strength, accuracy and power! Never heard anyone seriously question that since the day it was announced. And of course it is an improvement and redesign of the basic Remington concept. As far as the Remington Colt debate, opinions differ, Remington had some nice features, Colt had some other advantages equally nice. For one if you had time to use them the Remington had slightly better sights, but the Colt pointed better and faster, and that's what the Cavalryman with a saber in one hand, his revolver in the other and the reins in his teeth tended to prefer. There was another reason that WAY more Colts were issued than Remingtons! Anyone except Mr. 10 Bears (cause he probably knows) care to guess what it was? Regards, ...

08-24-2010, 11:43 PM	#9
Exitwound Red Blooded American Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 2,288	No idea. Mr. Bears can you shed some light?

08-24-2010, 11:46 PM	#10
Gus Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Arizona Posts: 66,849	A contractual agreement between Colt and Remington. I own replicas of both, the 1858 Remington hands down is the better firearm.

08-24-2010, 11:47 PM	#11
10 Bears Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: E-Da-How Posts: 137,846	The "Walkers" and then the various Dragoons! Horse Pistols all. Not carried on the hip but in saddle holsters! They were not exceeded in power untill 1935, when the .357 was introduced.

08-24-2010, 11:56 PM	#12
Karl/PA Resident Curmudgeon Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: South-Central PA Posts: 11,989	First couple of years of the Civil War the Rebs would clean up on the Union Calalry, The North was still relying on rifles and sabers where the south relied more on shotguns and pistols. Each of McNeill's Rangers carried a cut off double barrelled shotgun and FOUR pistols. One on each hip and one in each boot. Tremendous close quarter firepower.

08-25-2010, 12:02 AM	#13
Gus Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Arizona Posts: 66,849	Colt rear site a "V" in the hammer. Colt barrel held to the frame with a friction fit wedge that was driven in place.

08-25-2010, 02:21 AM	#15
5knives KaBoom Kontrol Modulator Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Colorado, Western Slope Posts: 16,229	Hmmm, Interesting! Thought sure someone here would know. Not meant to be a trap, just a point of interest. To 10 Bears point though, V notch in hammer, yup, you changed windage and elevation with a file. plus they were factory set more or less for a 75 yard zero, ... intentionally!\\ and so were the Remingtons. But the Colts were designed to point not to aim, and the 1860's were darn near as natural a pointer as the older .36 Navy (which was and is the best pointing handgun ever made but definitely NOT a good stopper, think .380 power levels) but the .44 anchored targets far better. The wedge was meant to be useful in an emergency if you for some reason had to dismantle your revolver with only a rock for a tool. Which was sometimes required because the worst percussion caps you could buy today are more reliable and uniform than anything produced in the CW era. They frequently shattered on firing, with pieces flying about and dropping into the 'works'. Anyone doing much BP revolver shooting today has had it happen even with modern caps, piece of cap ends up in the wrong place, locks the cylinder and your done shooting until you clear it. Note: ( You can do a lot to improve the accuraccy of your Colts by using a feeler gauge to get a uniform barrel/cylinder gap when you press the wedge home on reassembly.) And you improve the accuracy of both Remingtons, Colts, Stars and all the others by carefully assembling your ball or bullet and powder into paper cartridges which is what the old timers used anyhow. Gummed cigarette papers work just dandy. Making a few dozen or more is a satisfying way of passing a poor TV night. Because of the common occurrence of exploding, breaking and fracturing caps the Remington closed frame and top strap 'trapped' more fragments and quickly gained a reputation for being less 'reliable' than the open design Colts. I've had it happen with both. Much less common today but even with modern caps, the Remington design will lock up more frequently than the Colts. The natural walking beam process of fire, recoil, cock and fire action of a single action serves to drop the shards and pieces free with the Colt and tends to dump them into the lockwork of the Remingtons. The Remington designs for cylinder barrel removal makes the jam easier to clear, but in the day, the feeling was that they jammed 'too often'. So the Remingtons got a rep for being 'finicky', and were usually issued to Officers who were presumed to be somewhat less likely to have to use them in ernest. But the culprit was really the poor quality percussion caps of the time in a firearm design that was maybe a tad ahead of its time In both cases the modern replica's are on average better made, more reliable, and more accurate than anything available during the CW era, But the better older ones had a hell of a nice polish and bluing job! Oh Yeah ... and Mr Exitwound has got himself a 'Good Un' ! Regards, ...