Russia says no to Kalashnikovs

Sanders · 09-30-2011, 02:22 PM

I thought they had gone to the AK-103? Poor reporting by Pravda? Say it isn't so!

Quote:

This year has seen the end of the longstanding tradition of the Soviet times. Russia's Defense Ministry has decided to completely refuse from purchasing the legendary AK-74 rifles for the army. There are two reasons for that: the country has too many Kalashnikovs and they are outdated.

Nikolai Makarov, the Chief of the General Staff of the Russian Armed Forces said: "Yes, we have refused. The reserves that we have in the country exceed the needs considerably."

http://english.pravda.ru/russia/poli...kalashnikov-0/

Moon · 09-30-2011, 02:31 PM

Hmmmmm. It's not hard to imagine that Russia is absolutely overwhelmed with AK-series rifles. Are they inherently ineffective or unfit for military use ? Uuuum, no, I shouldn't think so. I also read a bunch of hoopla about "inaccurate precision shooting at long ranges" or some such shit. I've got this idea that the rifle itself isn't inaccurate... the sights are horrid, the sight-base is too short, and the trigger really REALLY blows.

Rew · 09-30-2011, 03:12 PM

Well, hate to tell ya Moon but the rifle itself is inaccurate. The sights, the trigger, and the 7.62x39 round don't help any. Whats kind of strange is that the 5.45x39, if used on a different platform, say a bolt action is a very accurate round.

gunnysmith · 09-30-2011, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moon

Hmmmmm. It's not hard to imagine that Russia is absolutely overwhelmed with AK-series rifles. Are they inherently ineffective or unfit for military use ? Uuuum, no, I shouldn't think so. I also read a bunch of hoopla about "inaccurate precision shooting at long ranges" or some such shit. I've got this idea that the rifle itself isn't inaccurate... the sights are horrid, the sight-base is too short, and the trigger really REALLY blows.

And the hand guards will catch on fire when running several drums of ammo through them

5knives · 09-30-2011, 08:53 PM

YUp!

AK is a total POS, that's why we only had 58,000 kia, the ak's didn't work at all. just crap.

If the VC and the Northern cousins hadn't had some sks's and MN's (oh yeah ... and U.S M-1 carbines) in their ranks, we probably wouldn't have had any casualties at all.

I heard those 7.62x39 lil ity bity weak even bounce off web gear.

Good thing those piles of dead deer in WI, MI and MN and elsewhere don't wear web gear.

Problem with the AK-47 and AKM's were thick crude sights, extrmly short sight radius, military poor qc ammo specs, dirty shot out bores and 'soldiers with no concept of maintainance. Plus some very original mounting and aiming prctices. I'm positive that most Arabs still think it's the noise that kills.

Yup, RPD fore ends burn and catch fire if you run too many rounds through em in too short a time. You can do it with AK's and AKM's too. The original M-16's don't catch fire, the bbl just droops and you get a kaboom. The T-16 did it and I suspect you can get the current versions to overheat also.

Only guns I know of thet can'r overheat are water cooled, belt fed and have a crew of 4-6 to keep 'em running. They also traverse when necessary, something missing on too many 'modern machine guns'.

Ak accuracy? Sorry, same acceptance specs as the M-14 or the M-16. 50% hits on a man sized target at 300 meters, makes anything under 6" at 100 meters good to go. M-! garand was 4 or 5" originally IIRC, forget which.

Did I ever mention that it was slicked up versions of those crappy MN's that kicked our superior asses in virtually every international match all theough the 40's and 50's.

NEVER underestimate your enemies OR THEIR WEAPONS!

Don't have to like either one, but fail to respect them and you'll end up dog meat!

Mmmm, ... end of rant.

All IMHO but there's a few cold hard facts mixed in their!

As I read the article, the russkies didn't find anything wrong with the Kaleshnakovs, they've just got way more than they need, bulging warehouses and all that sort of thing.

Regards,

...

gunnysmith · 09-30-2011, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Yup, RPD fore ends burn and catch fire if you run too many rounds through em in too short a time. The original M-16's don't catch fire, the bbl just droops and you get a kaboom. The T-16 did it and I suspect you can get the current versions to overheat also.

That was a ,inside the Bunker, joke from the old Moon video

Gus · 09-30-2011, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunnysmith

That was a ,inside the Bunker, joke from the old video

Burning AK47 - 300 Rounds & on Fire - YouTube

5knives · 09-30-2011, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunnysmith

That was a ,inside the Bunker, joke from the old Moon video

I know, I remember the original posting.

I was a trifle surprised that my VEPR (think semi-auto .308 RPD, 60% thicker steel and better designed improved trunion) I would cheerfully match against any issue m-14 for acuracy, but I was surprised how hot the foreend got with repeated rapid fire.

I just get a litle testy when folks seem to dismiss any weapon too lightly (well, exceot the famous sho-shoo (Chauchet, to the uninitiated) which was/is a POS and still has the world record for killing more of it's users than it ever did enemy soldiers.

Probably sounded more obnoxious than I really meant to.

Sorry about that.
Regards,

...

5knives · 09-30-2011, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunnysmith

That was a ,inside the Bunker, joke from the old Moon video

I know, I remember the original posting.

I was a trifle surprised that my VEPR (think semi-auto .308 RPD, 60% thicker steel and better designed improved trunion) I would cheerfully match against any issue m-14 for acuracy, but I was surprised how hot the foreend got with repeated rapid fire.

I just get a litle testy when folks seem to dismiss any weapon too lightly (well, exceot the famous sho-shoo (Cauchet, to the uninitiated)which was/is a POS and still has the world record for killing more of it's users than it ever did enemy soldiers.

Probably sounded more obnoxious than I really meant to.

Sorry about that.
Regards,

...

10 Bears · 09-30-2011, 10:29 PM

Well, Knives, it's good to see you back in form, anyway!

5knives · 10-01-2011, 01:08 AM

Geez, I said I was sorry.

I apologize, I apologize, I apologize and what I tell yoiu three times is true, everyone knows that.

Actually, I've been a tad testy the last few days, facing facts that my hunting days are now going to be much reduced if at all, and it's that time of year that I need to get out in the woods and murder a few helpless cute furry critters, rip their hides of and pop them in the cook pot. Main problem left is that I can't get too far from a toilet, getting better every day but an hour or two is about it.

Other thing is I can't find anyone out here so far that hunts my way, these guys seem to be all shooters, convinced they need a 375 H&H ao they can gutshoot one of these newfangled bullet proof deer or elk at 947 yards or so, then jump in the truck and try to get there before the critter dies of old age or the varmints have stripped the bones clean.

That's fine, just not my style. Doc says that I will NOT go off on any hunting trips by myself, and she's right, I got no business wandering around mountains I don't even remotly know, seeking critters that may or may not be there.

Week or so ago another dumbass old enough to know better, went hiking alone over in Utah, to see where that other idiot had to chew his arm off a few years ago. Didn't tell anyone where he was going of course, slipped broke his leg and spent 4-5 days crawling and was still a mile from his car when somebody found him. kind of a wake up call. I broke an ankle 30 years ago and had to crawl about a mile or so, no fun, and that was rolling open forest, cow pasture really. Nothing like a mountain trail.

Then, if I'm not hunting I start to look over the firearms, most now geared to hunting, so I have to re-think all of that, plus the guns that aren't strictly hunters are geared to ... ummm ... urban unrest. Don't see a real need for much in that category either.

So I've just gotta give it some thought as to what I need or won't need for the next 30-40 years or so.

Means I'll be selling or trading stuff I really like. then of course if I get hit by a truck or fall off a mountain or something, MaryAnn could use some extra cash under the mattress. Decisions, decisions.

Envy my Grandfather, got along just fine for 96 years or so of his life with the Peacemaker he bought in 1890, the single shot 12 gauge of unknown parentage and the bolt action .22 he bought in the '20's. Never needed anything else he said.

Realised later that the 12 was chambered for 2 1/2 inch shells and he used it about 50 years with 2 3/4

, must have been pretty well made because it lasted him about forever. had a bbl at least 34 inches long on it, and he did shoot slugs once in a while.

Simpler times, they were some hard days, but they were good days just the same. least that's the way I remember it!

Regards,

...

Rew · 10-01-2011, 07:21 AM

Ahem, no need to apologize, not much need to rant either. I've been shot at a few times with an AK, got hit once. Shot more than a couple, never cared for them much. I have a thing about hitting things I shoot at. I have hit "thing's" with M16's, M14's, M1's and even the lowly M1Carbine even hit a couple "things" with an AK, just never really liked them much.

Sanders · 10-01-2011, 09:15 AM

Well, 5-Knives, I have my Colorado Hunter's Safety card.

How are the over-the-counter deer and elk tags this year? If not this year, let's plan something for next year. And Rew, you're included in this as well! A Western states

hunt trip/camp sounds like just the ticket.

hangfire · 10-01-2011, 09:50 AM

Quote:

they've just got way more than they need, bulging warehouses and all that sort of thing.

I'll be glad to take a few off their hands.

10 Bears · 10-01-2011, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sanders

Well, 5-Knives, I have my Colorado Hunter's Safety card.

How are the over-the-counter deer and elk tags this year? If not this year, let's plan something for next year. And Rew, you're included in this as well! A Western states

hunt trip/camp sounds like just the ticket.

Hell, if you're promoting a geriatric hunt, I'm in.

09-30-2011, 02:31 PM	#2
Moon IncogNegro Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 5,825	Hmmmmm. It's not hard to imagine that Russia is absolutely overwhelmed with AK-series rifles. Are they inherently ineffective or unfit for military use ? Uuuum, no, I shouldn't think so. I also read a bunch of hoopla about "inaccurate precision shooting at long ranges" or some such shit. I've got this idea that the rifle itself isn't inaccurate... the sights are horrid, the sight-base is too short, and the trigger really REALLY blows. __________________ "Thou shalt not be a son-of-a-bitch". Magnus392, from Rules of Chuck 00011

09-30-2011, 03:12 PM	#3
Rew Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Colorado Posts: 9,710	Well, hate to tell ya Moon but the rifle itself is inaccurate. The sights, the trigger, and the 7.62x39 round don't help any. Whats kind of strange is that the 5.45x39, if used on a different platform, say a bolt action is a very accurate round.

09-30-2011, 08:53 PM	#5
5knives KaBoom Kontrol Modulator Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Colorado, Western Slope Posts: 16,229	YUp! AK is a total POS, that's why we only had 58,000 kia, the ak's didn't work at all. just crap. If the VC and the Northern cousins hadn't had some sks's and MN's (oh yeah ... and U.S M-1 carbines) in their ranks, we probably wouldn't have had any casualties at all. I heard those 7.62x39 lil ity bity weak even bounce off web gear. Good thing those piles of dead deer in WI, MI and MN and elsewhere don't wear web gear. Problem with the AK-47 and AKM's were thick crude sights, extrmly short sight radius, military poor qc ammo specs, dirty shot out bores and 'soldiers with no concept of maintainance. Plus some very original mounting and aiming prctices. I'm positive that most Arabs still think it's the noise that kills. Yup, RPD fore ends burn and catch fire if you run too many rounds through em in too short a time. You can do it with AK's and AKM's too. The original M-16's don't catch fire, the bbl just droops and you get a kaboom. The T-16 did it and I suspect you can get the current versions to overheat also. Only guns I know of thet can'r overheat are water cooled, belt fed and have a crew of 4-6 to keep 'em running. They also traverse when necessary, something missing on too many 'modern machine guns'. Ak accuracy? Sorry, same acceptance specs as the M-14 or the M-16. 50% hits on a man sized target at 300 meters, makes anything under 6" at 100 meters good to go. M-! garand was 4 or 5" originally IIRC, forget which. Did I ever mention that it was slicked up versions of those crappy MN's that kicked our superior asses in virtually every international match all theough the 40's and 50's. NEVER underestimate your enemies OR THEIR WEAPONS! Don't have to like either one, but fail to respect them and you'll end up dog meat! Mmmm, ... end of rant. All IMHO but there's a few cold hard facts mixed in their! As I read the article, the russkies didn't find anything wrong with the Kaleshnakovs, they've just got way more than they need, bulging warehouses and all that sort of thing. Regards, ...

09-30-2011, 10:29 PM	#10
10 Bears Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: E-Da-How Posts: 137,846	Well, Knives, it's good to see you back in form, anyway!

10-01-2011, 01:08 AM	#11
5knives KaBoom Kontrol Modulator Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Colorado, Western Slope Posts: 16,229	Geez, I said I was sorry. I apologize, I apologize, I apologize and what I tell yoiu three times is true, everyone knows that. Actually, I've been a tad testy the last few days, facing facts that my hunting days are now going to be much reduced if at all, and it's that time of year that I need to get out in the woods and murder a few helpless cute furry critters, rip their hides of and pop them in the cook pot. Main problem left is that I can't get too far from a toilet, getting better every day but an hour or two is about it. Other thing is I can't find anyone out here so far that hunts my way, these guys seem to be all shooters, convinced they need a 375 H&H ao they can gutshoot one of these newfangled bullet proof deer or elk at 947 yards or so, then jump in the truck and try to get there before the critter dies of old age or the varmints have stripped the bones clean. That's fine, just not my style. Doc says that I will NOT go off on any hunting trips by myself, and she's right, I got no business wandering around mountains I don't even remotly know, seeking critters that may or may not be there. Week or so ago another dumbass old enough to know better, went hiking alone over in Utah, to see where that other idiot had to chew his arm off a few years ago. Didn't tell anyone where he was going of course, slipped broke his leg and spent 4-5 days crawling and was still a mile from his car when somebody found him. kind of a wake up call. I broke an ankle 30 years ago and had to crawl about a mile or so, no fun, and that was rolling open forest, cow pasture really. Nothing like a mountain trail. Then, if I'm not hunting I start to look over the firearms, most now geared to hunting, so I have to re-think all of that, plus the guns that aren't strictly hunters are geared to ... ummm ... urban unrest. Don't see a real need for much in that category either. So I've just gotta give it some thought as to what I need or won't need for the next 30-40 years or so. Means I'll be selling or trading stuff I really like. then of course if I get hit by a truck or fall off a mountain or something, MaryAnn could use some extra cash under the mattress. Decisions, decisions. Envy my Grandfather, got along just fine for 96 years or so of his life with the Peacemaker he bought in 1890, the single shot 12 gauge of unknown parentage and the bolt action .22 he bought in the '20's. Never needed anything else he said. Realised later that the 12 was chambered for 2 1/2 inch shells and he used it about 50 years with 2 3/4 , must have been pretty well made because it lasted him about forever. had a bbl at least 34 inches long on it, and he did shoot slugs once in a while. Simpler times, they were some hard days, but they were good days just the same. least that's the way I remember it! Regards, ...

10-01-2011, 07:21 AM	#12
Rew Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Colorado Posts: 9,710	Ahem, no need to apologize, not much need to rant either. I've been shot at a few times with an AK, got hit once. Shot more than a couple, never cared for them much. I have a thing about hitting things I shoot at. I have hit "thing's" with M16's, M14's, M1's and even the lowly M1Carbine even hit a couple "things" with an AK, just never really liked them much.

10-01-2011, 09:15 AM	#13
Sanders Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 66,557	Well, 5-Knives, I have my Colorado Hunter's Safety card. How are the over-the-counter deer and elk tags this year? If not this year, let's plan something for next year. And Rew, you're included in this as well! A Western states hunt trip/camp sounds like just the ticket.